SanVi Blog

Facebook debate

2011-10-14T11:04:00.004+02:00

I've been having a long debate on Facebook about religion, thought I'd post it here for posterity, and to make it a bit more accessible. It started when I posted this photo, of an article showing Hitchens and Dawkins taking a walk together during the Texas Freethought Convention in October 2011. The debate took place in the comments underneath the photo:

Dave
Greater good? Whatever happened to blind, pitiless and indifferent?
10 October at 18:03 •

Jim
They were discredited by Spinoza
10 October at 18:04 •

Jim
Check out http://www.kiva.org/community , for example

Kiva - Loans that change lives
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10 October at 18:07 • •

Dave
Spinoza discredited Dawkins? Sounds like the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is headed for a split.
10 October at 18:43 •

Dave
Re: Kiva, I say good show! More people should be philanthropic. But I ask again, from where do you derive your "ought" in reference to moral duties?
or as Norman Geisler reminded me today (via mp3):
Romans 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
10 October at 18:54 •

Jim
There you go, quoting your magic book again. This bit allegedly written by a psychopathic torturer who reformed himself after a psychotic episode or hallucination.
10 October at 22:32 •

Dave
And once again you avoid answering the question.
10 October at 22:44 •

Jim
What question? Where do morals come from? From the human breast. Or am I supposed to accept that the genocide-ordering, rape-victim-stoning and slavery-enabling sprite of yours had something to do with them?
10 October at 22:52 • Like • 1 person

Dave
Sounds relativistic, am I to understand that morality originates in a subjective feeling? Not very solid ground. If it feels good lets call it moral.
10 October at 22:59 •

Jim
I don't mind where you argue it's from, as long as you don't invoke an imaginary being that allegedly created everything to its own design, didn't like what it had made so then decided to subject 99.9999% of them to death by drowning (and starvation for those that survived the initial flood).
10 October at 23:05 •

Jim
... despite being allegedly omniscient and therefore knowing that it would happen in the first place.
10 October at 23:24 •

Dave
Likewise I don't mind you throwing all that it the mix, but I still see no answer in your rebutals.
Tuesday at 08:46 •

Jim
So I have to know and be able to explain exactly where morals come from, otherwise goddidit?
Tuesday at 08:48 •

Dave
That's about the size of it, in the absence of a (better) hypothesis, I think the God hypothesis wins the day, even if you don't like the God that I would fit into that gap. I think the goddidit hypothesis also works better than anything that anyone else has come up with in terms of origin of the universe, origin of life, the Cambrian explosion and the resurrection of Jesus.
Tuesday at 14:58 •

Jim
The Cambrian Explosion lasted 80 million years. Jesus never existed.
Tuesday at 15:10 • Like • 1 person

Dave
btw, could you please give me chapter and verse re: stoning a rape victim. They must have skipped that one in my seminary training. (and my compliments for you wordsmithing abilities, if you ever want to go into gratuitously pissing people off you certainly have the vocabulary to do so.)
Tuesday at 15:10 •

Dave
Jesus never existed- a statement of faith contrary to the bulk of historical scholarship, I guess that's what Dawkins means when he talks about faith is believing in something even in the teeth of evidence.
Tuesday at 15:12 •

Dave
Geologically speaking, isn't 80 million years a rather brief period?
Tuesday at 15:13 •

Jim
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+22%3A23-27&version=NIV

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 22:23-27 - New International Version
www.biblegateway.com
If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and
Tuesday at 15:15 • Like •

Jim
Re Jesus never existing. The onus is on the claimer to prove it happened. 'Historical scholarship'? No contemporary records, no artefacts, no statues, nothing. Pics or it didn't happen.
Tuesday at 15:17 •

Jim
While there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that the story was inspired by an amalgam of other messianic cults of the time and region.
Tuesday at 15:19 •

Dave
Thanks for the link. btw, though I'm not sure it matters, but I've checked a few places and they come up with a Cambriam period of less than 55 million years. I'll comment on the link later.
Tuesday at 15:20 •

Jim
The cambrian explosion was a geologically short period, that's why it's referred to as the explosion. But it's still 80 million years. Plenty of time for gradual change over millions of generations.
Tuesday at 15:20 •

Jim
Wikipedia says 70 - 80, whatever.
Tuesday at 15:20 •

Ed
The British archaeologist William Ramsey, a convinced atheist who lived in the 19th, early 20th century, was committed to using archaeologicl/historical evidence to disprove the New Testament account. In the end the weight of the evidence was so overwhelmingly positive that the NT records are true and accurate that Ramsey became a committed Christian. All it would have taken to substantiate his unbelief was discovering one real historical fact that was untrue, but the more he investigated, with all the new discoveries that were happening in the time, the more the evidence supported the historical accuracy of the gospel and Acts.
Tuesday at 15:28 •

Ed
Jumping in :-)
Tuesday at 15:29 •

Jim
Things have come on a lot since the late 19th C. Lots of archeological discoveries, but still no concrete evidence to back up the story. I mean the whole thing is riddled with plot holes consistent with it being cobbled together syncretistically. Top deity had to sacrifice himself to himself because the things he designed himself were malfunctioning. Don't even get me started on the doctrine of the trinity being a direct breach of the first commandment.
Tuesday at 15:39 •

Ed
In spite of all the discoveries since the time of Ramsey none contradict the NT (and OT as well) accounts, and as discoveries increase they continue to affirm the historicity of the biblical records.
Tuesday at 15:47 •

Ed
No other historical record has ever been subjected to such intense scrutiny (understandaby in terms of its claims- I'm not disputing that) as the Bible. In spite of that the more we discover the more the historicity of the biblical account is verified. Myths just don't work like that. Mythologies are ahistorical by their very nature. Historical details usually don't matter- the story does. That is common to all mythologies. The historical accuracy of the Bible is absolutely unique.
Tuesday at 15:51 •

Ed
It does not fit the pattern of mythology at all. True, there were many different myths at the time of the NT, some involving messiah figures. But they all share the same ahistorical character.
Tuesday at 15:54 •

Ed
Read the stories of Mithras; the myths of the corn god who comes back to life. They could happen anytime, and virtually anywhere. The place names are accidental when present. Entirely not so with the Bible.
Tuesday at 15:57 •

Ed
To use a poor comparison, in her biography of Socrates, The Hemlock Cup, Betthany Hughes quotes another historian as calling Socrates "the doughnut"- we know an awful lot about everything surrounding his life, but actually nothing directly about him- only the records given to us by Plato, Xenophon and Aristophanes. But the wealth of the historical details around his life give us confidence he existed. Of course, nothing like the weight of the issue of whether Jesus was who the NT claims is at issue with Socrates. But our evidence is better that Jesus existed- records dating to a few decades after his death. The records we have from the witnesses to Socrates' life are far newer (preserved through the labours of Christian monks who believed that learning and truth is worth preserving, even if pagan in origin). It's stretching things by any standard to say that there is no evidence for him, whether or not you believe the NT claims about him.
Tuesday at 16:07 •

Ed
Note on second note above- I wasn't meaning that Mithras was the corn god. The way I wrote it might be confusing.
Tuesday at 16:08 •

Jim
Nice Gish Gallop, Ed
Tuesday at 16:09 •

Ed
? Don't understand the reference.
Tuesday at 16:10 •

Jim
http://tinyurl.com/66x385r
Tuesday at 16:12 •

Jim
Nobody is making supernatural claims about Socrates.
Tuesday at 16:15 •

Ed
"The Gish Gallop is an informal name for a debating technique that involves drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood that has been raised."
Tuesday at 16:15 •

Jim
I meant the 6 posts in a row, not the strength or otherwise of the arguments
Tuesday at 16:17 • Like

Ed
Sorry- I guess it was a bit like that, excepting the "half-truths, lies and straw-man" bit. It wasn't my intention. Once again the FB format is not the best way to discuss these things.
Tuesday at 16:17 •

Ed
My mind gets rolling and my fingers take over.
Tuesday at 16:18 •

Jim
Yes, we can get into never-ending debates on these issues, and I haven't spent 30+ years studying them like you have. And you guys are going to go right on believing in zombie god, and I'm going to go right on believing in my atheistic religion, right?
Tuesday at 16:19 •

Ed
We both know people do change. You and I both have.
Tuesday at 16:20 •

Jim
Usually not through this format though. Seeds get planted in much more subtle circumstances. Alpha male debate only hardens one's position.
Tuesday at 16:21 •

Ed
I'm about ready to head to bed. I'm leading a school in Perth, Australia, so it's getting late here- well, only 10:20, but the day starts early.
Tuesday at 16:22 •

Jim
Sleep well!
Tuesday at 16:22 •

Ed
Thanks. Until next time, when I'll try to be less Gish-like. :"-)
Tuesday at 16:23 •

Dave
Re: Deuteronomy 22, you have got to be kidding! Rape-victim-stoning? You’ve got to pull some pretty slick eisegesis to make that accusation stick. The whole passage is about protecting the sanctity of sex and marriage and includes some pretty radical ideas, like men ought to be held accountable for what they do with their penises.
Tuesday at 19:07 •

Jim
Er it is an instruction to kill all betrothed women who are raped in cities but don't cry out loud enough. Seems pretty clear to me.
Tuesday at 19:26 •

Al the Troll
The important message there seems to be that if you're in any doubt the answer is probably to stone to death all those involved.
Tuesday at 19:32 • • 1 person

Jim
@Dave, re "gratuitously pissing people off". The reason I posted this photo of the newspaper article was that I was happy to see Christopher Hitchens - currently battling stage 4 oesophageal cancer - taking a stroll with his friend Richard Dawkins, for what may be the last time. You picked up on the fact that it was shared from a page called 'Atheists for the Greater Good' and decided to turn that into a debate on morals (on my page). In that situation I don't feel like the onus is on me to mind my language, and I'm not going to mince my words. Interestingly you then said it was great that Kiva Atheists were doing good things - that's exactly what the Atheists for a Greater Good page is all about. Atheists doing philanthropy and improving the lives of others. You can try telling us that we have no moral basis for doing so, or that our morals come from [enter supernatural being's name here], but we're just going to carry on doing philanthropy regardless.
Wednesday at 08:44 •

Dave
And please continue to be philanthropic. I certainly didn't mean to make light of Hitchen's situation. Contrary to whay some may thinnk I don't believe there are many Christians who take pleaseure in his demise. He has been a great catalyst for thought and has posed some important questions.
Wednesday at 11:43 •

Al the Troll
If you did take pleasure in Hitchens' demise could you still call yourself a Christian? It doesn't seem hugely Christian. Although neither does stoning rape victims to death. Or stoning anyone to death for that matter.
Wednesday at 11:47 •

Dave
Re Deuteronomy: in first two verses the sex act is not considered rape nor is it called rape. Was she being raped in town, given the layout of towns in those days, a simple scream would have brought help. This assumes the sex act was not rape. The following two verses taken in the context of the first two assume there is no one nearby to rescue her if she cried out. Remeber, a text without a context is a pretext.
Wednesday at 11:50 •

Dave
@Alastair - you'd have to be a pretty poor exegete to get that out of that text, but as I hinted before, with the proper eisegesis you can make it say anything you need it to.
Wednesday at 11:51 •

Jim
@Alastair, it's all thanks to a fine piece of fundie double-think - love thy neighbour, but pray that the 'wicked' meet their come-uppance. The definition of wicked is very elastic, ask Fred Phelps, or the various abortion clinic arsonists, bombers and assassins.
Wednesday at 11:54 •

Jim
"with the proper eisegesis you can make it say anything you need it to" [/ irony ]
Wednesday at 11:55 •

Dave
Actually, I fear there are people who call themselves Christians who would like Hitchens to go away. And there are alot of atheists who wanted Christians to go away. I actually admire Hitchins in that he has dared to step into arenas where a lot of his collegues would not tred.
Wednesday at 11:56 •

Jim
(speaking of irony, those abortion clinic murderers refer to themselves as 'pro-lifers')
Wednesday at 12:01 •

Dave
I can read it in English and not have to even consult the Hebrew or commentaries to know that it is quite legitimate to understand it as I have explained it to you. In order to make it fit your interpretation you need to read rape into that first section. It's just not there. I'll admit that I don't want it to say anything about stoning rape victims but thankfully I don't have defend what is already clear in English. The symantic gymnastics are all yours.
Wednesday at 12:04 •

Dave
Jim, if I ever utter a word of support for abortion clinic bombers you may take me to the mat. Until I do that (and I won't) you're just preaching to the choir.
Wednesday at 12:08 •

Jim
I understood that the word 'violate' implied rape, and the fact that the woman should 'cry out', but even if it doesn't, the verse does not specifically rule out rape, so any woman raped in a city who doesn't cry out loud enough fits the criteria, and presumably some were stoned to death in this situation. I love the fact that we're arguing about the specifics of the criteria and not about the fact that people should be stoned to death, and that according to Matthew (who wasn't there and was writing 40+ years after the events took place) , Jesus said that not one iota of this law should be taken away.
Wednesday at 12:10 •

Al the Troll
Bombing an abortion clinic is wrong, good. But we're still good to go on the stoning people to death thing? Sweet.
Wednesday at 12:12 •

Jim
*any betrothed woman
Wednesday at 12:12 •

Jim
I'm just trying to imagine how, in an era before the printed word, in a time of limited literacy, when handwritten texts and word of mouth were the prime sources of information, any historically accurate information about the leader of a religious/political group with devoted followers keen to big up his achievements, could be relayed to a biographer 40 years after the fact.
Wednesday at 12:17 •

Dave
In the Judeo-christian ethic having sex with anyone with whom you are not married is a violation. As I said, the sacredness of marriage is the key to this passage. In this hypothetical case while the woman is violated she would also deemed complicit for not seeking help from those within earshot. The second two verses are seen in juxtaposition to the first two for comparison, a commmonly used form in Hebrew writing.
Wednesday at 12:21 •

Jim
So you can confidently say that no rape victim was ever stoned to death on the basis of this verse? Rape victims are still being stoned to death in fundamentalist Islamic countries, I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that they were in ancient Israel too.
Wednesday at 12:26 •

Dave
Alastair, I don't think we want to start a capital punishment debate, we'd never see the end of it. But you are comparing apples and oranges. With one a lunatic fringe bomber has taken the law into his hands to punish people he deems to be guilty without regard for innocent life. With the other it is about the upholding of the law. I hope you can at least appreciate the difference in the two very different scenarios. But I will spare Jim further debate on that topic.
Wednesday at 12:28 •

Jim
PS your 'Judeo-Christian ethic' obviously didn't apply to King David, King Solomon, Rehoboam, Eve, Cain and Abel (one presumes), Lot and his daughters, Abraham, Sarah and Hagar, etc. And the idea that all the royal concubines were voluntary is laughable - they would largely have been captured sex slaves. The Judeo-Christian ethic is a modern invention, and is as elastic as the definition of 'wicked'.
Wednesday at 12:35 •

Dave
Jim, you sure seem intent to put put words into my mouth. I don't know if any rape victims were stoned to death on the basis of this verse. I do know that if that happened it was a miscarriage of justice. A lot of laws get misinterpretted and misapplied. And seriously, I abhor the Islamic practices like stoning rape victims and genital mutilation (a favorite Hitchens argument). I am not going to defend Islam and I can't imagine you think I need to. It's a red Herring, my friend. And your "safe bet" is nothing more than speculation.
Wednesday at 12:36 •

Dave
Jim, the OT is glaringly slient about the issue of multiple wives. And while I suspect you are speculating again the OT does make this clear, monogamy was the plan. It was also commonplace, even the status quo that kings would amass wives as gifts from other monarchs. I don't see any evidence to determine teh voluntary nature of such arrangements, but I concur, voluntary? Probably not. But does the OT commend multiple wives and concubines? Nope. Instead it clearly shows that wherever a man took on more than one wife he ended up in misery.
Wednesday at 12:41 •

Jim
I referred to Islamic punishments because, as primitive legal practices from the Middle East, they reveal what was probably standard across that region in the past. Forced marriages, death sentences for rape victims (but not rapists) and keeping girls and young women veiled and locked away made perfect sense from an evolutionary point of view in an era when they were the only ways to guarantee certainty regarding your (grand)child's paternity, thereby ensuring the continuation of your DNA.
Wednesday at 12:44 •

Dave
The prohibition may not have been explicit but the results of such a lifestyle were clear to see. That's one of the things that I like about the Bible, other religious literature the Bible makes no qualms about showing the heroes warts and all. Kinda gives you hope to know that it's not about being perfect
Wednesday at 12:44 •

Al the Troll
So if the lunatic fringe group that takes the law into their own hands to punish people they deems to be guilty without regard for innocent life are called Christians then we're good?
Wednesday at 12:48 •

Dave
But Jim, you commit the genetic fallacy in assuming that all the Middle East operated according to the same practices. You want to use what you know to be true about one religion and culture and force fit it into another. It's similar to the argument "all the ancients believed lightning came from the gods and science has proved them wrong, therefore this god business is rubish." The conclusion doesn't follow logically from the premise, plus the premise hasn't been proven true in the first place.
And your DNA theory only works under naturalism. The Judeo-Christian worldview does not subscribe to the idea that our sole purpose is to replicate DNA (funny that that idea comes from Dawkins who denies the existance of purpose then reminds us that being a DNA factory is our only purpose).
Wednesday at 12:56 •

Jim
I'm not saying that's definitely what happened across the ME, just that it's an indication that that's what might have happened. The DNA theory explains the origins of the practices, which were then codified into religious law and retrospectively given a divine origin. Yes, it only works under naturalism, sorry about that.
Wednesday at 12:59 •

Dave
If I call myself a hamburger and do not act, look or smell like a hamburger, I am not a hamburger. I don't like that the lunatic fringe calls themselves Christians but there is no copyright holder on the name and pretty much anybody can (and they do) claim the name and then drag it through the mud. Just don't expect to join hands with them and sing hymns.
Wednesday at 13:05 •

Dave
Nevertheless, your theory is a good starting point, but it lacks evidence for it's conclusion. I would of course submit the Bible as evidence to the contrary but you have already dismissed that line of evidence a priori. So I don't think we'll get anywhere with that theory.
Wednesday at 13:07 •

Al the Troll
But killing innocent people certainly seems to be with the spirit of the old testament if not the letter so maybe their claim to be Christians isn't so unfounded after all.
Wednesday at 13:07 •

Jim
It's a good theory, and it doesn't need evidence for its conclusion, because conclusive evidence is almost impossible to find thousands of years after the fact. Occam's razor says go with the best theory. If you entertain the possibility that naturalism is the way things are as a thought exercise (AKA 'taking off your god glasses') you might find that a lot of other things fall into place. To start with, for example, the diversity and uniqueness of fauna on islands such as Madagascar and Australia...
Wednesday at 13:28 •

Jim
go with the best theory, until a better one comes along
Wednesday at 13:38 •

Jim
82 comments, I'm phoning Guinness soon...
Wednesday at 14:03 •

Dave
OK, last rant: On the Deuteronomy passage: In those days an engagement was a contractual / covenant agreement which was binding and could only be nullified by divorce.
Re: innocent people – I presume that you refer to various people groups for which God is often accused of being genocidal. Well, that claim of innocence and the accusation of genocide depend largely on one thing: is the Bible true? If the Bible is not true then God is not a moral monster, he is a non-entity, he is irrelevant. The worst you could say is that the inventor of God was evil. But even that would be hard to make stick since the whole God myth may have been useful in assuring the flourishing of Israel, and may have been essential in keeping order and allowing them to pass their DNA on to future generations of Jews and thus stand together under a common uniting myth, a myth which gave them a source of pride and identity and a cause for which to fight. Naturalism then has no ground upon which to make a moral claim against such a hypothesis if the Bible is just a useful myth.
But if the Bible is true, and God is as he is described therein, then the possibility that they were innocent becomes quite remote. Being omniscient, he would know their hearts and their deeds, being holy he would be intolerant of sin, being good and loving he would allow sufficient opportunities for compliance, being just he would exact appropriate punishment.
Further, “utter destruction” language may well be hyperbole, as war propaganda commonly is. Paul Copan says that it is likely that when Israel was said to have destroyed a people group they may well have only attacked the strongholds. (After all when one attacks another country the normal understanding is that they have attacked that country’s military). This be evidenced by the fact that these people groups still existed long after they were said to have been destroyed (remember, there were still Germans after WW2 even though the allies utterly destroyed them). Had the writers been writing a mythical account it is more likely that their enemies would have been written out of their stories as was also common in those days.
Jim, it seems to me that Occam’s razor says go with the simplest solution. Worldview is all about which glasses we use to make sense of the world, not which of us use glasses and which do not. Without the god glasses we’re stuck with no explanation for the origin of the universe, origin of life or a basis for absolute moral values. So until a better theory comes along I’ll take your advice and stick with what I’ve got.
And if you’re going to call the Guinness people be sure to order me a pint (and tell Oz I said hello).
Wednesday at 19:55 •

Jim
The origin of the universe is essentially unknowable, irrespective of your personal theory. There are various solid theories for the origin of life, none of which is currently 100% waterproof, especially with regard to the role of RNA, but we're getting there. A basis for moral values - I beg to differ. My morals are based on evolved empathy, not on a millennia-old list / book.

Re: if god does not exist how can he be genocidal? Well exactly. The people who invoked him were genocidal, according to the bible. The point is that you can't rely on him as the source of morals on the basis of the bible, because the god posited there does not act morally by any objective standard.

As for the historic integrity of 'people groups', people groups, races, nations, etc. are labels invented by people. There's no such thing as a 'Jewish people', even the strictest enforcement of racial segregation cannot stop interracial marriage, rape, whatever from 'polluting' the DNA.We're all Africans.
Wednesday at 20:22 •

Jim
?.... so genocide against a 'people' is simply genocide against another group of individuals, who in those days probably shared almost identical DNA. 'Innocence' and 'guilt' are meaningless in such situations: one week you were on the receiving end of a raid, the next you were carrying out a revenge raid. Wiping out an entire population, including the women, children and infants who, by any definition, were innocent, also conferred evolutionary advantages to the perpetrators (less competiion for resources for themselves and their descendants), and prevented future generations coming to exact revenge on them (we've all seen the Godfather films).
Wednesday at 20:36 •

Jim
Re hyperbole: it's either 100% accurate or it isn't. If it isn't on this point, why should we trust the rest of it? Was Jesus walking on water hyperbole, or feeding the 5000? If not, why not?
Wednesday at 21:31 •

Dave
Hey Jim, I've been laid up all day with a migraine. I'm better now, so here it comes...
10 hours ago •

Dave
Origin of the Universe – perhaps, but then why do so many people busy themselves with the unknowable and why did steady-statists bristle at the idea of the big bang? Because the big bang fits quite nicely in the creation story even though the recording of it creation story predates the acceptance of the big band theory by thousands of years. As a result multiverse theories are being proposed to avoid any god involvement, theories which look a lot like how atheists view the god hypothesis: no evidence and can’t be observed.

Origin of life theorist have now concluded that life could not have originated spontaneously on the earth and have had to resort to extra-terrestrial seeding theories which to date lack evidence.

The idea of absolute morals is that they exist regardless of if no one believes in them. “Evolved empathy” implies changing over time. In that case we are not talking about the same thing.
10 hours ago •

Dave
Re genocide: If I have understood you correctly you have made two knowledge claims: 1. you can’t really know what happened thousands of years ago and 2. ancient Israel was genocidal. And how do you know that they were genocidal? The Bible says so. The book written thousands of years ago.

Now, in reading your extended explanation of genocide it seems to me you are describing perhaps even condoning a type of social Darwinism. If you indeed subscribe to social Darwinism then it leaves you little room to be upset about genocide or any other atrocity. In fact, atrocity becomes a relative term. But perhaps I am not following your line of argument.
10 hours ago •

Dave
About hyperbole, if when I was a kid I was to say “I’m so hungry I could eat a horse” my sister would say, “Liar, no you can’t.” If I said the same to my best friend he would likely say “Me too” or “So, you’re really hungry, eh?” The difference is my best friend was committed to understanding me even when I used hyperbole while my sister was committed to misunderstanding me.

Further, I don’t think the use of literary devices such as hyperbole, simile and metaphor in anyway compromise the integrity of the scripture, that is, if you are committed to understanding it. Since such devices were common in ANE literature then it seems their inclusion speaks to its authenticity. Jesus used hyperbole as well. Remember it one passage he equates hate with murder and in another he tells us to hate our families. People concerned with understanding Jesus recognized the hyperbole while others saw it as an inexplicable contradiction.

And why not elsewhere? If you can find reason to suggest that certain events were hyperbolic then you’d have a case, but asking why not without suggesting evidence is not good argumentation.

If there is any good reason to think that the Bible is inauthentic it would lie in the fact that it reports embarrassing events, ( other ANE literature). The Bible shows us the good and bad side of its heroes, reports crushing defeats and details multiple captivities and exiles. Also, it sets the stories in geographically, historically and culturally verifiable circumstances. ANE mythology was typically not concerned with such things.
10 hours ago •

Dave
I think that´s enough for now. Have a good trip to the UK and as usual, I´m jealous.
10 hours ago •

Jim
Sorry to hear about your migraine. Glad to hear it's better. Re genocide, there are written records going back thousands of years, including the bible, none of which we have to take at face value, but taken as a whole they paint a picture of life being pretty brutal. Archeology and anthropology confirm this.
10 hours ago •

Jim
Re social darwinism, I'm neither describing or condoning it, I'm merely examining the facts and looking for explanations. Evolution by natural selection provides possible explanations of many human phenomena, without excusing them, including those I mentioned such as preservation of girls' virginity, inter-tribal violence, but also religion and supernatural stories in general. Thankfully we've moved on, the enlightenment came along and put an end to the Inquisition, 'witch' burning, public disembowelment, and a lot of other grisly features of life in the dark ages and before it. I for one am very grateful to be living in an age and country where I'm not in perpetual fear of being pulled from my bed and tortured for what I believe, or having a burning torch lobbed into my straw hut in the middle of the night.

Re hyperbole, there's a big difference between the examples you give and a straight-faced description of numbers of people murdered, concubines, etc. And your examples of Jesus saying contradictory things is so dripping with molasses-thick irony it's almost painful. Assuming that there even was a carpenter who became a leader of a small band of fishermen and was crucified at 33, no-one who was there wrote anything down, the people who did write things down did so 40+ years later, with only Chinese whispers to base their writings on, Luke and Matthew copied and embellished Mark, and that's before various clerics and others started tinkering with the texts to suit their purposes. So is it any wonder we get 'hate is murder' and 'hate your family' being attributed to the same person?

Scans of Lakeland Haute Route, from Trail magazine August 2010

2011-05-18T19:08:00.008+02:00

This is the route Jason and I will be walking in June. Can't wait! Click on each page to enlarge it, then again to zoom in.

Busy week

2006-06-29T19:04:00.000+02:00

We've had a nerve-wracking week with various efforts to get money transferred to the notary's for the house purchase going astray, until finally the bank sent the notary's a fax this morning to confirm that the money is on its way. Only the cynics among you will conclude that this was only done in order to hold the money in an interest-free current account for another couple of days. Not nice, when there's a penalty of 10% of the purchase price hanging over your head if it doesn't go through! Everything should therefore go ahead as planned tomorrow... and I will be very relieved when it does.

We took the kids to meet their new headmaster the other day, and have a tour around the school. The school seems perfect for them, each class has kids from 2 or 3 different years in together, which I think will help Jamie get up to speed on the things she's behind on and keep ahead on the things she's good at. We didn't get off to a great start with the head though - we couldn't work out if we'd done something wrong or whether he simply has an antipathetic personality. If so he's possibly in the wrong career. Fingers crossed that that will work out ok.

Yesterday we took our two and Frank to the very last theatre show ever by a man who used to do a very popular kids show in Holland in the 70s and 80s, and which all the kids have watched multiple repeats of. (He's still performing in other shows, but this was billed as the last ever show of this character). He's a Brian Cant lookalike for those of you who remember Play Away. The show was targeted at both the previous generation of viewers and the new one, so it was an interesting mix. Danny got bored towards the end, but that's par for the course. When we got home he fell fast asleep on the couch so it must have been tiring at least!

Last night I finally met up with Mike, Johan, John and John's new girlfriend Julija at a concert. First gig for me in over a year, it was good to be back. We all had a good natter before the gig started. They will be coming on Saturday to help with the move, along with Pascal and possibly Kelly.

Today Jamie went to school with Majo, and by the sound of it had a great time. Cora and Anja looked after Danny while Carmen and I went off to buy - sigh - bedroom furniture. The ultimate torture, and you get to pay a hefty bill at the end of it! And Madonn' what a bill... Well I guess I should look at it this way, spread over 10 years it's less than the price of a half pint of Grolsch a day.

2006-01-27T12:13:00.000+01:00

This is the house we have bought in De Meern, near Utrecht. We move in on 1 July. As you can see the garage has been converted (it is currently a hairdresser's) so will be ideal for me to use as an office. There are 4 big bedrooms.

The house is literally around the corner from a kids' playground, and walking distance from schools and shops. The last bus back from Utrecht is at 12.50 am. Sorted.

2006-01-27T12:11:00.000+01:00

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2006-01-05T12:55:00.000+01:00

Christmas present giving in Spain takes place on 6th January, and the presents are delivered by the Three Kings, aka the Three Wise Men, Gaspar, Melchior and Balthazar. The other evening, there was an opportunity for the kids to post their letters to the kings, i.e. their list of present wants. The kings sent one of their 'pages' to talk to the children and help them post their letters.

Our two had fun queueing up with their friends and talking to the page, who looks suspiciously like a version of Father Christmas, but there you go.

2006-01-05T12:40:00.000+01:00

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2006-01-05T12:25:00.000+01:00

Posting their letters

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Santa's big helper (now wouldn't this have made a nice Christmas card?)

2005-12-25T18:38:00.000+01:00

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2005-12-25T11:51:00.000+01:00

That'll do for me

2005-12-25T11:45:00.000+01:00

Jamie's hand-made "granny photo" for Anja

2005-12-25T11:42:00.000+01:00

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2005-12-22T14:08:00.000+01:00

Danny had his class Christmas show and party this morning. They all went dressed as Santa, here he is after having just put his suit on.

2005-12-22T14:06:00.000+01:00

Getting made up by Ima his teacher. Can you tell he doesn't like anyone putting anything on his face?

2005-12-22T13:36:00.000+01:00

The santas sang a little song with actions... Danny started out well but his attention and movement tailed off after a minute or so. At one point he gave a huge open mouth yawn, which had quite a few people in fits of giggles, including the three of us.

2005-12-22T13:32:00.000+01:00

They had a Christmas party afterwards with snacks and a present from the Three Wise Mens' helpers...

2005-12-22T13:30:00.000+01:00

Jamie's class also had a Christmas party

2005-12-22T13:28:00.000+01:00

Jamie's class

Rockslide on 'our' motorway

2005-12-21T10:39:00.000+01:00

A hillside collapsed onto the main motorway between us and the French border yesterday, halfway between Bilbao and San Sebastian, covering all four carriageways in rocks and burying four cars and a tanker lorry carrying toxic gas(!). Incredibly only one person was slightly injured.

Looking at the footage on the news yesterday this seemed not just incredible but impossible, can you imagine travelling at 80 mph / 120 kph and suddenly ... ?

The motorway was closed all day while they cleared the rubble and debris, and they have just reopened one carriageway this morning.

Rockslide on 'our' motorway

2005-12-21T10:17:00.000+01:00

One wonders if this will make them rethink their policy of cutting away hillsides rather than building tunnels. They'll certainly need to look again at all the other sheer rockfaces like this that line this motorway and many others.

2005-12-20T09:47:00.000+01:00

It was Jamie's Christmas concert at her music school yesterday. A bit lower key than previous occasions, this was only attended by the parents and various siblings of the kids. Jamie did her piece on the piano, and we had our first chance to watch her play the violin. We were bracing ourselves for a blackboard-fingernail type scenario, but she did it very well, hitting the right strings each time confidently.

2005-12-20T09:45:00.000+01:00

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The singing was very impressive, they'd obviously practiced the timing a lot. As a group this is the area they've improved the most in the past year.

2005-12-19T22:37:00.000+01:00

2005-12-19T22:34:00.000+01:00

The kids slightly more visible here

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Here's our Christmas pole in the main square

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2005-12-16T18:03:00.000+01:00

Jamie's school all drew pictures for Constitution Day, to celebrate 27 years of the constitution. Jamie's picture was chosen to represent her class, so she and her friend Carolina posed (and it was an excuse to try out our new camera, a Fujifilm A350)

2005-12-16T18:01:00.000+01:00

Here's a close-up of the picture, it's a book (the constitution) with a cake in front of it with two candles on it (2 and 7), with party decorations and the like around the edge - and people inside the decorations, because the constitution is for the people.

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Danny didn't want to be left out - he's always got a cheesy grin to spare!

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Danny's class at school, with the teaching assistant on the left.

2005-12-01T22:19:00.000+01:00

As you can see, the mat in the corner has another use - it's where the kids take their afternoon siesta. Danny hasn't napped at home for months, but he goes out like a light on the class mat. This is not a typical thing, it's only his teacher who does it.

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2005-12-01T22:16:00.000+01:00

Best friend Oscar in the middle

2005-10-21T19:46:00.000+02:00

It's been pretty quiet here so I haven't had much cause to write, you know how it is.

Jamie's at her second swimming lesson. The first one last week was a bit of a drama, she fell over and scraped her elbow and knee nastily just before she got on the coach. The whole thing
seems very poorly organised. Carmen has gone in the car today so she can bring her home straight afterwards. There's no waiting area so they're dumped outside to wait for the coach with wet hair and everything, so one shudders to think how many catch colds when it's wet or rainy. There's one coach for two coachloads of children, and Jamie is in the second one, so she would be left in the cold. I'm not sure if Carmen's going to keep it up going there every Friday -
there's no viewing area and parents are only allowed in to the pool to watch once a month, so the mums have to kill time during the lesson. Coffee and natter, I guess.

But it's good for Jamie to get some lessons, she's a natural swimmer but needs some proper teaching. Also they start early in Holland and we don't want her to be lagging behind next year. Frank passed his certificate recently, swimming fully clothed, so you see they are pretty advanced there.

Danny is enjoying school, they have a nap there in the afternoons, he has his own cushion and blanket and they have a mat in the corner they all lie on. He seems to nap there better than he does / did at home! He has always been a loner in the playground unless Jamie's been there, in which case he's played with her or her friends, but since he's started school he's started slowly to come out of his shell a bit. At least he tries talking to other kids, but he doesn't jump in to their games like Jamie did at his age.

He's got a slight cold at the mo, his winter permasnot has started and he was coughing and sneezing a lot first thing this morning. He's lasted well today though, considering.

We took the car in for a service and to have them look at our clutch, which kept slipping during acceleration on the journey to and from Holland. They've spotted an oil leak onto the clutch, but they're wondering if it's a design fault of the car and have phoned 'Madrid', who want to have a look at it, so it's going away for a couple of days. Whatever happens, it's under guarantee.

Not a lot happening on the Holland front, we need Nuria to come and take some more photos of this flat. They're on the market at Nuria's agency, there have been some people interested in the 2nd flat but as there are people renting at the mo we haven't been able to show it to anyone. We are also waiting to hear from our accountant about the exact tax consequences, but he's in the middle of quarter-end and will get back to us once that's finished, i.e. any day now I hope.

The chap who designed the website for the rental flat is going to make a new site for selling the flats, and I will promote them on selling sites at some point soon. The prices here are driven by the proximity to Bilbao and are not very attractive to the average Brit - 100 miles to the west you can buy a renovated 5-bed detached house with garage, land and views, 5 minutes from the beach, for the same price as we are asking for this place. So we need to think of a strategy, ways of targetting the Basque market rather than the Brit market which I personally would be more comfortable selling to, language wise at least.

I had an appointment this week for a specialist to look at my knee, which had been made in June. My knee is a lot better, but I still get the odd little twinge so I thought might as well go to the appointment. I guessed they would do a scan or x-ray or something, but he just felt it and bent my leg in different directions, then said they would phone me with an appointment for a scan. Hmmm, all that wait and a trip to Torrelavega for that? Not sure if I'll bother with the scan.

Actually it was TWO trips to Torrelavega, as I got the dates mixed up and turned up a day early... ahum... The silver lining was we got to do some shopping - there's been a local transport strike, which had just turned national, and a lot of things were disappearing from the
shelves, so we stocked up on fresh fruit, veg and meat. As it was they called off the strike the next day, but we had some peace of mind having stocked up.

Eclipse

2005-10-03T11:07:00.000+02:00

Long time no blog! Sorry about that. The longer you wait before updating, the more daunting the task appears. Sort of like cleaning behind the cooker...

Anyway this is just a quickie to mention that there was an annular solar eclipse in Spain today. We didn't quite get the full thing here, but it was still pretty spectacular, with just a little rim left on the left-hand side of the sun. Funny thing was we only found out it was coming yesterday! There has been none of the hype and hysteria which surrounded the 1999 total eclipse. I tried looking for our old eclipse viewing glasses but with such short notice I couldn't find them anywhere. So we made do with 4 dark ski sunglasses on top of one another, and then only when the sun was behind a cloud.

The pale sunlight when the eclipse was at its maximum was rather spooky, made me think of the video of Black Hole Sun by Soundgarden.

Surf lessons

2005-08-05T23:54:00.000+02:00

Jamie is going to the creche in the mornings during the summer. They have special activities for her age group, lots of arts and crafts, that kind of thing. This morning they went crabbing at the beach and last week they had a surf lesson.

Here they are in their wetsuits ready for the lesson.

Listening to the instructions,

And getting into the water.

Apparently they were all standing up by the end of the lesson, but there didn't manage to get any photos of this, unfor-tunately.

Click on the photos for larger, high quality versions.

Soplao

2005-07-27T15:03:00.000+02:00

Carmen, Jamie and I went canoeing yesterday down the River Deva with Cora, Pascal and Frank. Beautiful weather, and the river was perfect as well, much higher water levels than in late August and September, so we didn't get stuck on the bottom as much (or maybe that had something to do with my 14 kg less weight...)

This morning we visited the new caves that have just opened here - Soplao. These feature the biggest collection of 'eccentric stalactites' in the world - stalactites that don't simply hang downwards vertically but shoot off in every direction. These are jaw-droppingly spectacular - the photos below give just a taste of what they're like in the flesh. Some of the formations also looked like waving flags or curtains, where drips had run along a sloping ceiling for thousands of years, slowly building up a horizontal line of mineral deposit.

As you can see from the photos, a lot of them look more like icicles or melting snow than mineral formations.

The tour was a bit short, only about 45 minutes, but they mentioned that a more adventurous tour lasting 3 hours and requiring helmets and wellies to be worn would be starting in October.

Graduation

2005-07-26T17:16:00.001+02:00

These pictures are from Jamie's 'graduation' ceremony from infants to primary school.

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Graduation song

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Jamie, Danny & Frank in the pool 2

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Jamie, Danny & Frank in the paddling pool

Girlwatching

2005-07-26T17:10:00.001+02:00

Carolina and Sofia came round for an afternoon in the paddling pool, and Danny got an eyeful through his binoculars. They start young these days, you know.

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Girlwatching

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Jamie enjoying herself

Pony and horses.

2005-07-26T17:05:00.001+02:00

We took the kids to the local stables to ride the horses, and they got a pony ready for Daniel. We confidently predicted that he wouldn't get up on it, and he did take some persuading, but once he saw Frank on his horse he was up for it and stayed on for the full 40 minutes.

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Love my pony

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Look Dan

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Stroking the pony

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Pony and horses

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Frank and Cora

Fair

2005-07-26T16:59:00.000+02:00

The kids had a great time at the small fair that was here at the Fiestas de Carmen. The ghost train was the favourite, although Danny has been having nightmares about it since!

We bought tickets for a tombola and Frank won a caged bird of some description, but they managed to trade it for a plant, which they gave to Jamie (and which she is now taking care of).

2005-07-26T16:58:00.002+02:00

Jamie and Danny on the roundabout

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Cora trying to resist churros

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Jamie on the trampoline

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Jamie and Frank on the roundabout

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Pascal at the fair

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Ghost train 2

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Ghost train 1

Race

2005-07-26T16:49:00.001+02:00

We went with Cora and Pascal to a fete in a nearby village, expecting there to be the usual bouncy castles and suchlike for kids, but instead they'd arranged games and races. Jamie and Danny took part in this race to fill a wine bottle with water. Poor Danny was already knackered at the end of a long day, and it was very funny watching him run back and forth to fill a plastic cup from a bucket then bring it back to fill the wine bottle. He started out full of enthusiasm, but got slower and slower until on the tenth trip he was walking along at a slow stroll.

We had to keep shouting at him to look where he was going as he kept looking at us with a huge grin on his face and nearly bumping into other kids running in the other direction.

The amount of water that actually reached the wine bottle was highly amusing too!

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race 1

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race 2

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race 3

Anja

2005-07-26T16:44:00.001+02:00

Anja (my mother-in-law) moved in to stay with us the day Cora and Pascal (my brother and sister in law) arrived on holiday to stay in her flat. Unfortunately that evening, while mum and daughters were out for a walk, Anja somehow twisted her ankle, and in doing so broke a bone in her ankle. She stayed in our flat for a couple of weeks but the 5 flights of stairs were too much for her so she's gone back to her flat, where it's a full house. At the moment she's arranging a flight back to Holland through her insurance.

2005-07-26T16:44:00.000+02:00

Anja in her first cast

Got telly

2005-07-13T12:03:00.000+02:00

I recently bought a second-hand Sky Digibox on eBay for £28 and a Freeview card for £32, plus postage. The dish (1 m) was installed this morning and now we've got BBC 1, 2, 3 and 4, ITV 1, 2 and 3, Channel 4, Five, CBBC and CBeebies. Sorted!

I went to the doctors for a check-up on my knee - it seemed to go
downhill again after I stopped taking the anti-inflammatories. The doc
is now sending me for a scan or something, and I'm still off sports,
which is really a shame. I've started walking more and plan to do more
swimming.

2005-07-10T16:57:00.000+02:00

Jamie getting a manicure

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The tin lids

Eventful

2005-07-10T16:37:00.000+02:00

It's been a sad, strange and eventful last few days. Cora, Pascal and Frank arrived on holiday on Thursday, but while we were waiting for them to arrive, the news of the bombs in London started filtering through, and the euphoria generated by Live 8 and the successful Olympic bid were immediately replaced with shock, horror and sadness for the victims and their families.

The kids were blissfully unaware of all this, of course, and were counting down the hours and minutes until their cousin Frank arrived. They talk all year about their trips to see one another.

Carmen's mum Anja is staying with us while Cora & Pascal are here. On Thursday evening, she went out for a walk with Carmen and Cora, and at one point she twisted her ankle on nothing, a slightly uneven paving stone by the sound of it. It was very painful and she limped to the doctor's with difficulty. They put a bandage on and told her to go and get it x-rayed the next day.

On Friday I was due to go to a rock festival in Santander in the evening. The first proper festival or concert in Santander since we moved here. Pascal was planning to come along as he wanted to see the Chemical Brothers, but when he saw they weren't due on stage until 12.45 am he decided to stay at home and get a good night's sleep instead. He did all the driving on Wednesday and Thursday so he was still recovering from the journey.

Carmen took Anja to get the x-rays in Santander (120 km / 85 mile round trip) and the result was that she has broken her ankle. They put the ankle and lower leg in a half-open cast, and sent her home. Great timing - no trips to the beach with Frank, no day trips, at least for the time being. Poor Anja, it's the first time she's ever had a plaster cast or been immobilised and she's having a hard time getting used to it, asking for help, etc.

As it was cloudy, Cora and Pascal had taken Jamie along with Frank to the shops in Santander, and just after Anja and Carmen got home, I got a phone call from him - could I get the spare car keys from Anja's flat and bring them to them in Santander? He'd locked the keys in the car (I don't know how he managed it, I thought with remote control keys that that didn't happen any more). I'd just got an urgent job in which I had to deliver in a couple of hours, so Carmen had another 120 km round trip.

When Carmen got back, I jumped straight in the car to drive to Santander again for the festival. It took me a while to find it, as the directions were not very good and there were virtually no signposts. It turned out to be right next to a beach, a compact festival site about half the size of Pinkpop or Torhout. Nice friendly size, in other words. The sun was out and there was a good vibe. The first band on the main stage was Ocean Colour Scene, but the sound check went on for ages, with various mic problems, so they were 50 minutes late coming on.

They played an excellent gig though, the crowd going wild for the big hits Things You Said and Day We Caught the Train. During the gig I got chatting to a group of Spaniards sitting in front of me on a strategically placed hillock, and spent the rest of the evening sharing rounds with them.

Next up were Morcheeba. The new singer fitted in perfectly and they put on a great show. She also plays sax. The sun went down during the set so the light show could start, and the big screens were switched on.

Morcheeba were followed by The Faint, a band from Omaha who I didn't know at all, didn't even vaguely recognize any songs. They reminded me of The Strokes, but not as cool.

Finally it was time for the headliners, The Chemical Brothers. I managed to get right up the front and got in some serious pogoing. Amazing. Unfortunately I forgot about my dodgy knee, which had just about recovered. The next morning it felt like it was back to where it was 3 weeks ago :o(

I'd lost contact with my group of Spaniards, and at the end of the gig the thought of the 2 km walk back to the car for a kip did not appeal, so I set my alarm for 7 (I had to be back to collect the keys from our departing guests) and crashed on the hillock for an hour. Woke up at 4 and wandered back to the car for another short kip, then back to San Vicente for the key handover.

See below for a couple of photos.

Despite clouds most of the week, our first paying holiday guests said they'd had a wonderful time, which was encouraging.

Despite the lack of sleep I took the kids down the market while Carmen made up the beds at the flat and changed the towels. We are getting a cleaner in to do the dirty work. Cora and Pascal then phoned to say they were taking the kids down the beach, so I rushed home to get the kids ready and creamed up, make a picnic, etc. The skies were clear and it was a beautiful day, the kids had a lovely time on the beach, diving into deep rock pools and digging lots of holes.

In the evening we were all knackered, but we had one more big job to do - the spare room, where Anja is sleeping, suddenly got an ant plague. All the flying ants were coming out, and the curtains were covered with them. We guessed that the nest was somewhere in the roof, and that they'd found a hole in the wall somewhere and were coming into the flat that way. We emptied the built-in cupboard where they seemed to be coming from and tried to find how they were getting in, but couldn't spot a gap anywhere. So we sprayed insecticide in the cupboard and left it for a couple of hours.

When we went back to look, the dead ants were concentrated in one place, so I got a mirror and found a hole in the plaster next to the inner wooden frame of the cupboard doors. I got some Polyfilla and carefully filled the gap, with the help of a torch and mirror, and it seems to have solved the problem.

I bought a wireless kit for the computer, so that I can use the internet from other rooms in the house and the balcony, especially while Anja is staying here. It arrived on Friday, but it doesn't work properly - the signal strength drops to nothing when the computer is in the lounge or on the balcony. So now I have to send it back and hope they send a replacement quickly.

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The main stage, Santander Summer Festival

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Morcheeba on the big screen

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The Chemical Brothers rock the block

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J, D and F

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Jamie, Danny and Frank

2005-07-10T16:28:00.000+02:00

The kids love their Nanny

First guests & Live8

2005-07-03T14:49:00.000+02:00

We had an interesting day waiting for our first guests yesterday. Neither of the 2 mobile numbers they'd given me appeared to be working, so by about 16.00 I was starting to get nervous. I'd bought them a bunch of flowers and a bottle of wine as a welcome present, so it would have been very disappointing if they'd not showed.

I'd also made a sheet with instructions for all the kitchen equipment and hung it behind the door, and while I was round at the flat putting this up on the wall, they phoned to say they'd arrived.

Very nice family, our age with a 15 yr old girl and 10 yr old boy, half Danish half Spanish/American, so very similar type of mixed family to us.

This morning they called to say they couldn't get the washing machine to work. Despite my instruction sheet they hadn't worked out that they needed to push the programme button in before turning it to the programme. I will be making stickers to put on the machine this week ;o)

Apart from that they seemed settled and happy. The kids were installed on the settee watching DVDs.... guess which....?

Friends, of course! Proven ideal holiday viewing for teenagers!

Spent an enjoyable 8 hours or so watching Live 8 yesterday and thinking of Jane down at the Eden project watching the world music and slumming it with Angelina Jolie... I thought the whole event was a huge success, similar to Live Aid in structure but bigger and more spectacular, although of course the original had Freddie Mercury so
can never be improved on. My favourite acts were Black-Eyed Peas and the Scissor Sisters, who put on great shows. It was good to see the oldie acts, like the Who, Pink Floyd and Paul McCartney, but the music was rather over-familiar. The exception to this was Annie Lennox, whose voice seems to improve with age. Amazing performance and powerful speech.

July

2005-07-01T12:52:00.000+02:00

July has arrived, and with it our first holiday letting season. Our first guests arrive tomorrow and we're ready and waiting, after a busy week getting everything ready. In fact Carmen has gone to Carrefour this morning to get the last bits and pieces - towels, spare pillows and stuff. Our long term tenant left the place looking ostensibly decent, but closer inspection revealed a different story and in the end we got in a cleaning crew to give it a good going over.

The other thing we're a bit nervous about is a possible no show - I haven't had replies to my emails or been able to get through to their mobile number... I resisted suggestions that I should get 100% of payment up front, only a 25% deposit, so if they don't show we lose the other 75% which would be a pain. They'll show though... *crosses fingers*

We're wondering what the guests will make of the place. Our long-term tenant said that the nasty smell which hangs in the lobby sometimes gets into the main bedroom, which is a bit worrying. Also that the upstairs neighbours can be very noisy. We decided at the last minute to swap the pull-out bed in the second bedroom for a put-you-up bed which I bought in Lid1. It looked fairly flimsy initially but it has a wooden slat base and feels comfortable to lie on, even for big old me.

We're hoping everyone enjoys their stay and none of these factors result in disgruntled visitors. They've at least got a new, bigger TV than used to be in there, and a DVD player with a selection of DVDs, plus some board and card games and a good selection of books, and I will be taking Sandy's advice and welcoming them with a bottle of wine and a bunch of flowers.

The kids are on summer holiday and are enjoying the free time. They're both going to the creche in the mornings - they have activities for Jamie's age group, and her two best friends from school are also there.

We've taken Danny out of nappies during the day to get him ready for school in the autumn. That's been going reasonably well, as long as we put him on the toilet often enough... Even then he makes a big fuss, esp about no. 2s, and we've had quite a few accidents (some not so accidental), but he manages it on the loo more often than not.

The other day I took them to the playground, and at one point I couldn't see Danny. I was frantically looking around when I heard 'PAPA PAPA' and saw him standing behind a big rock. I walked over and he'd pulled down his trousers and pants to have a wee against the rock. Of course it had gone all over the trousers and pants! Good boy, well done, BUT, please come and get daddy forst next time....

Luckily it was a hot day and he dried out quickly, not too much embarrassment... But I was cringing 2 minutes later when he came down the slide sandwiched between Jamie and another kid... Needless to say both kids' clothes went straight in the wash when they got home, and both of them straight in the bath!

I'm pleased with how my diet has been going. Despite the beery trip to Cardiff right at the end of May, Sandy and Nanny's visit with lots of meals out, and being unable to run or cycle for most of June due to a knee injury, I still lost 3.9 kg from 1 June to 1 July. Currently 93.0. The closer you get to your target, the harder it is to keep going - everyone keeps saying I don't need to lose any more etc. But I know from experience that once you've got the diet momentum going it's best to carry on until you're completely happy.

My original target was 85 kg, not sure whether I'll have the perseverence to get that far though. I'm already pretty skinny - apart from the eternal beer belly, which has got a lot smaller but is still firmly there.

Friday

2005-06-17T23:54:00.000+02:00

Today we had a wonderful picnic next to the source of the La Fuentona river. This was a place we'd been to last year with S&N and wanted to come back for a proper picnic this time. The weather was fabulous, baking hot sun, and we spent the afternoon shuffling around trying to stay in the shade of the trees. The kids had a great time crossing back and forth across the bridges, playing with sticks, paddling, crossing big stepping stones and sitting at the edge dangling their feet in the cold water.

Jamie also showed off her sultry skipping rope dances, all self created. Sandy pointed out that there were a lot of flamenco-y touches, which was interesting.

At one point a chocolate point Siamese cat joined the group, begging for food and lapping up all the attention he could get. I could even pick him up and stroke him, which is very unusual for Siamese, and especially in Spain where most cats are semi-wild.

We had the place virtually to ourselves all afternoon, then wandered off to a cafe for a last cold drink before going home. When we walked back to the car, where we'd been sitting had been invaded by day trippers from a couple of coaches, who packed out all 6 picnic tables and were sitting and standing in every available piece of shade! We thanked our lucky stars they hadn't come any earlier!

2005-06-17T23:53:00.000+02:00

Dabbling feet in river

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Stroking tarty cat

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Off to play Pooh Sticks

2005-06-17T23:50:00.000+02:00

Jamie doing her famous skipping rope dance

2005-06-17T23:48:00.000+02:00

Enjoying a sunny picnic

2005-06-17T23:47:00.000+02:00

Danny and Jamie take Oma Sandy for a walk